Comments on: A short lesson in defamation: UK newspaper links Gaza operation to Sabra and Shatila massacre http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/ Think Tank Blog: The online repository of articles on anti-Zionism and civilisational decline by analyst Robin Shepherd Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:41:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Gábor Fränkl http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1815 Gábor Fränkl Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:14:09 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1815 In the past I bought a few issues of Independent. Nowadays I just go into the central foreign newspaper shop and look into it - for free! The letter-writers more often than not are clearly psychotic primitive readers who go pitbull-mode foaming at the mouth whenever it comes to the magic words "Tony Blair", (in the past) "George W. Bush", "Israel". It's really-really amusing. I well remember the odious disgusting cartoon in the paper about Sharon depicting him as an ogre chewing off the head of a baby - 6 or 7 years ago - I just by chance bought that particular issue too. It was later awarded by the British Cartoon Association - to its shame. As I understand the Independent paper was created in 1986 by an Irishman. I also know that the "Independent" DID plagiarize/stole from an official Labour party material on the positive aspects of EU integration - all in the spirit of genuine "Independence" LOL. Clearly such an overall ridiculous,discredited and pathetic, what's more paranoia-mongering "newspaper" (Tony Blair: viewspaper) have no past - but, hopefully, no future either. In the past I bought a few issues of Independent. Nowadays I just go into the central foreign newspaper shop and look into it - for free! The letter-writers more often than not are clearly psychotic primitive readers who go pitbull-mode foaming at the mouth whenever it comes to the magic words “Tony Blair”, (in the past) “George W. Bush”, “Israel”. It’s really-really amusing. I well remember the odious disgusting cartoon in the paper about Sharon depicting him as an ogre chewing off the head of a baby - 6 or 7 years ago - I just by chance bought that particular issue too. It was later awarded by the British Cartoon Association - to its shame. As I understand the Independent paper was created in 1986 by an Irishman. I also know that the “Independent” DID plagiarize/stole from an official Labour party material on the positive aspects of EU integration - all in the spirit of genuine “Independence” LOL. Clearly such an overall ridiculous,discredited and pathetic, what’s more paranoia-mongering “newspaper” (Tony Blair: viewspaper) have no past - but, hopefully, no future either.

]]> By: wolf terner http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1812 wolf terner Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:09:48 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1812 Response to J. Karmi: More's the pity. Take a history lesson. Had the french bloodied Hitler's nose after his move to reoccupy the Rhineland there would have ended germanany's craving for another war. Had Churchill and Roosevelt taken on the Russians in eastern europe after WW11 there would have been no cold war, Cuban crisis, Berlin Wall, Middle eastern wars between proxy fighters Egypt and Israel. Had America decimated the chinese during the Korean war there would have been no Vietnam war, no Cambodian holocaust.... And no, the russians would never have gone to bat for the chinese. Turning the other cheek is not a Jewish concept, no matter how often Christian nations expect Jews to do just that! Response to J. Karmi: More’s the pity.

Take a history lesson. Had the french bloodied Hitler’s nose after his move to reoccupy the Rhineland there would have ended
germanany’s craving for another war. Had Churchill and Roosevelt taken on the Russians in eastern europe after WW11 there would have been no cold war, Cuban crisis, Berlin Wall, Middle eastern wars between proxy fighters Egypt and Israel. Had America decimated the chinese during the Korean war there would have been no Vietnam war, no Cambodian holocaust…. And no, the russians would never have gone to bat for the chinese.

Turning the other cheek is not a Jewish concept, no matter how often Christian nations expect Jews to do just that!

]]> By: Jonathan Karmi http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1811 Jonathan Karmi Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:12:49 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1811 Thanks Joshua. Mounting that defence was a pain as I'm not blessed with great patience, so I did descend into a bit of rudeness at one point. The enigmatically named S. Wood seems well versed in the party line of Scottish Palestinian Solidarity. I salute his indefatigability, but he can't see the wood for the trees. Great quotes from Antony Julius under Robin's FT article. Many thanks for that. And Robin - thanks for the Just Journalism pointer. Looks a really good site. Thanks Joshua. Mounting that defence was a pain as I’m not blessed with great patience, so I did descend into a bit of rudeness at one point. The enigmatically named S. Wood seems well versed in the party line of Scottish Palestinian Solidarity. I salute his indefatigability, but he can’t see the wood for the trees.

Great quotes from Antony Julius under Robin’s FT article. Many thanks for that. And Robin - thanks for the Just Journalism pointer. Looks a really good site.

]]> By: Joshua http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1809 Joshua Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:08:03 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1809 OT: Jonathan Karmi above posted a great review of "Start-Up Nation: The Story of Israel's Economic Miracle" at Amazon.co.uk. (see link below) just a few days ago. If you read the comments below that review (click on link "Comments"), you will see that he has also put up a most excellent defence of Israel in response to a long series of really quite vicious attacks by an anti-Zionist customer. Start-Up Nation at Amazon.co.uk http://tinyurl.com/yc8btzq OT: Jonathan Karmi above posted a great review of “Start-Up Nation: The Story of Israel’s Economic Miracle” at Amazon.co.uk. (see link below) just a few days ago. If you read the comments below that review (click on link “Comments”), you will see that he has also put up a most excellent defence of Israel in response to a long series of really quite vicious attacks by an anti-Zionist customer.

Start-Up Nation at Amazon.co.uk

http://tinyurl.com/yc8btzq

]]> By: Jonathan Karmi http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1806 Jonathan Karmi Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:08:10 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1806 Response to Wolf Terner ... It isn't going to happen. Israel isn't like that. Thank god. Response to Wolf Terner … It isn’t going to happen. Israel isn’t like that. Thank god.

]]> By: wolf terner http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1800 wolf terner Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:00:08 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1800 The solution to blaming Israel is really quite simple for Israelis: own up to it. Tell the world, point blank, that if Arabs want to fight Israel they should expect ever greater massacres in the future. And maybe, just maybe, the Israeli government can use this threat as a weapon of deterrent.And use it, too. Very simple: No attacks, no massacres. Attacks=massacres. Period. The solution to blaming Israel is really quite simple for Israelis: own up to it. Tell the world, point blank, that if Arabs want to fight Israel they should expect ever greater massacres in the future. And maybe, just maybe, the Israeli government can use this threat as a weapon of deterrent.And use it, too.

Very simple: No attacks, no massacres. Attacks=massacres. Period.

]]> By: Simone Bacchini http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1796 Simone Bacchini Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:02:29 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1796 Unfortunately, I believe that it is not only "the most fanatical readers" who are likely to be taken in by the anti-Israeli writings of Ms Alibhai-Brown and Mr Hari. They both cause and perpetuate what on the surface may appear, to the uninformed, reasonable (and reasoned)criticism of the Jewish State, therefore resulting in considerable damage. Once again I'm surprised to find myself admiring Sivio Berlusconi for his words of support to Israel during its recent address to the Knesset. Israel ought indeed to be part of the European Union, and NATO - I believe. With it we stand, without it we fall. Unfortunately, I believe that it is not only “the most fanatical readers” who are likely to be taken in by the anti-Israeli writings of Ms Alibhai-Brown and Mr Hari. They both cause and perpetuate what on the surface may appear, to the uninformed, reasonable (and reasoned)criticism of the Jewish State, therefore resulting in considerable damage.

Once again I’m surprised to find myself admiring Sivio Berlusconi for his words of support to Israel during its recent address to the Knesset.

Israel ought indeed to be part of the European Union, and NATO - I believe. With it we stand, without it we fall.

]]> By: Another Joshua http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1795 Another Joshua Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:45:01 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1795 Robin you are absolutely right. The perpetrators of the criminal act at Sabra and Shatilla have gone virtually unscathed over time as Israel remains, in most people's minds, as the party responsible for it . Who does, these days recall Elie Hobeika, the former head of intelligence for the Lebanese Christian Maronite Forces (Phalange), as the man the Kahan Commission actually blamed for directly ordering the slaughter as revenge for Bashir Gemayel's assassination?. And not only Kahan but also General Laachad, commander of the Christian Southern Lebanese army, who in an interview said: "In September 1982, immediately after the massacre, when I was military governor in Beirut, Hobeika's men came to me straight from the camps, the victims' blood all over their clothes. They told me everything - a minute-by-minute account. I know 100 percent that neither Sharon nor anyone from the IDF was involved. But legally Sharon bears responsibility because he knew that Hobeika was a bad person, and he shouldn't have let him in." By superimposing an airbrushed history to justify its view of Israel in the present, the writers at the Independent perpetuate a false account of history. Over time it will be hard to agree on any factual account on anything unless we combat this false history. I propose that the " New" Historians after Revisionism should be called "Correctionist" Historians!! Robin you are absolutely right. The perpetrators of the criminal act at Sabra and Shatilla have gone virtually unscathed over time as Israel remains, in most people’s minds, as the party responsible for it . Who does, these days recall Elie Hobeika, the former head of intelligence for the Lebanese Christian Maronite Forces (Phalange), as the man the Kahan Commission actually blamed for directly ordering the slaughter as revenge for Bashir Gemayel’s assassination?. And not only Kahan but also General Laachad, commander of the Christian Southern Lebanese army, who in an interview said:
“In September 1982, immediately after the massacre, when I was military governor in Beirut, Hobeika’s men came to me straight from the camps, the victims’ blood all over their clothes. They told me everything - a minute-by-minute account. I know 100 percent that neither Sharon nor anyone from the IDF was involved. But legally Sharon bears responsibility because he knew that Hobeika was a bad person, and he shouldn’t have let him in.”
By superimposing an airbrushed history to justify its view of Israel in the present, the writers at the Independent perpetuate a false account of history. Over time it will be hard to agree on any factual account on anything unless we combat this false history. I propose that the ” New” Historians after Revisionism should be called “Correctionist” Historians!!

]]> By: Andy Gill http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1793 Andy Gill Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:04:27 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1793 Quite right Robin. Having read the leader article it is quite clear that The Independent is deliberately planting the false impression that Israel carried out the massacre at Sabra and Shattila. This is journalism at its most corrupt and cynical. Quite right Robin. Having read the leader article it is quite clear that The Independent is deliberately planting the false impression that Israel carried out the massacre at Sabra and Shattila.

This is journalism at its most corrupt and cynical.

]]> By: Jonathan Karmi http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/a-short-lesson-in-defamation-uk-newspaper-links-gaza-operation-to-sabra-and-shatila-massacre/#comment-1789 Jonathan Karmi Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:44:12 +0000 http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=2102#comment-1789 I haven't bought the Independent since 12th September 2001. On that day, Robert Fisk attached blame for the Al-Qaida atrocities onto America, Israel and the West. It's the first and only time I've bought a newspaper and within two minutes stuck it into the nearest rubbish bin. I haven’t bought the Independent since 12th September 2001. On that day, Robert Fisk attached blame for the Al-Qaida atrocities onto America, Israel and the West. It’s the first and only time I’ve bought a newspaper and within two minutes stuck it into the nearest rubbish bin.

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