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	<title>Comments on: UPDATE: Discussion on the Guardian: Should we take the legal or statutory route to get a fair hearing for Israel in the UK?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/</link>
	<description>Think Tank Blog: The online repository of articles on anti-Zionism and civilisational decline by analyst Robin Shepherd</description>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-1171</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=1268#comment-1171</guid>
		<description>How true your words are Another Joshua. Of course this is &#039;why they have shied away&#039;. The subject of Robin&#039;s book is surely one of the ethical issue of our time and their &#039;political philosophy&#039; is embarrassingly weak. A strong case would welcome the challenging points made in this brave and honest contribution to the debate. The author accepts there may be disagreements with his personal assessment of things but the response has been a barrage of low blows, ad hominem remarks and less than evidence-based attacks. So what else is new in the world.
@the other Joshua: Good to see more poetry in the Comments section. Here&#039;s a poem by a pacifist that has the words &#039;Israeli&#039; and &#039;Palestinian&#039; in it.
http://www.poetrysoc.com/content/publications/website/poems/adrianmitchell/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How true your words are Another Joshua. Of course this is &#8216;why they have shied away&#8217;. The subject of Robin&#8217;s book is surely one of the ethical issue of our time and their &#8216;political philosophy&#8217; is embarrassingly weak. A strong case would welcome the challenging points made in this brave and honest contribution to the debate. The author accepts there may be disagreements with his personal assessment of things but the response has been a barrage of low blows, ad hominem remarks and less than evidence-based attacks. So what else is new in the world.<br />
@the other Joshua: Good to see more poetry in the Comments section. Here&#8217;s a poem by a pacifist that has the words &#8216;Israeli&#8217; and &#8216;Palestinian&#8217; in it.<br />
<a href="http://www.poetrysoc.com/content/publications/website/poems/adrianmitchell/" rel="nofollow">http://www.poetrysoc.com/content/publications/website/poems/adrianmitchell/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Another Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-822</link>
		<dc:creator>Another Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=1268#comment-822</guid>
		<description>Robin, before going to law (where you will hit a few problems), you might want to consider making a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission. See website: http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/process.html
Their remit:

&quot;The PCC deals with all editorially-controlled material in UK newspapers and magazines (and their websites). This can include:

Readers&#039; letters
Edited or moderated reader comments on newspaper and magazine websites.&quot;

How effective they are I don&#039;t know, since I have not had any cause to complain(yet). But quite clearly your book has opened up a huge debate on terms that opponents are not prepared to engage in. As you clearly have shown, anti-Zionism is not a polar opposite of Zionism. It is something else and those who claim differently will find it increasingly uncomfortable. That is why they have shied away. Your book is a brilliant deconstruction of the anti-zionist cause and since what you are arguing  is anti-mainstream, is refreshingly subversive and an exciting and long awaited response to this dandruff-ridden discourse. I wish you well and am recommending your book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin, before going to law (where you will hit a few problems), you might want to consider making a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission. See website: <a href="http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/process.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/process.html</a><br />
Their remit:</p>
<p>&#8220;The PCC deals with all editorially-controlled material in UK newspapers and magazines (and their websites). This can include:</p>
<p>Readers&#8217; letters<br />
Edited or moderated reader comments on newspaper and magazine websites.&#8221;</p>
<p>How effective they are I don&#8217;t know, since I have not had any cause to complain(yet). But quite clearly your book has opened up a huge debate on terms that opponents are not prepared to engage in. As you clearly have shown, anti-Zionism is not a polar opposite of Zionism. It is something else and those who claim differently will find it increasingly uncomfortable. That is why they have shied away. Your book is a brilliant deconstruction of the anti-zionist cause and since what you are arguing  is anti-mainstream, is refreshingly subversive and an exciting and long awaited response to this dandruff-ridden discourse. I wish you well and am recommending your book.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-807</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=1268#comment-807</guid>
		<description>http://cifwatch.com/2009/10/08/enforcing-the-gwv-through-misrepresentation-addendum-2/

My second &#039;Addendum&#039; pulls apart Lerman&#039;s second misrepresentation of the book.......... and if he tries it again, there will be a third ..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://cifwatch.com/2009/10/08/enforcing-the-gwv-through-misrepresentation-addendum-2/" rel="nofollow">http://cifwatch.com/2009/10/08/enforcing-the-gwv-through-misrepresentation-addendum-2/</a></p>
<p>My second &#8216;Addendum&#8217; pulls apart Lerman&#8217;s second misrepresentation of the book&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. and if he tries it again, there will be a third ..</p>
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		<title>By: Allan Gay</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-806</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Gay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=1268#comment-806</guid>
		<description>Robin,

I bought and read your splendid book. I particularly admire it for its scrupulously fair tone and its insightful conclusions. It should come as no surprise that it was misrepresented in a review embodying the addled mindset which you had identified.
 
Sloppy thinking, careless writing and the use of loaded terms are the stock in trade of modern journalism, both in newsprint and in the broadcast media. Might I suggest that the decline to this present sad state of affairs be the subject of your next book? 

You will need a case study, and what could be better than a history of that once-great newspaper The Manchester Guardian? Please put my name down for the first copy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin,</p>
<p>I bought and read your splendid book. I particularly admire it for its scrupulously fair tone and its insightful conclusions. It should come as no surprise that it was misrepresented in a review embodying the addled mindset which you had identified.</p>
<p>Sloppy thinking, careless writing and the use of loaded terms are the stock in trade of modern journalism, both in newsprint and in the broadcast media. Might I suggest that the decline to this present sad state of affairs be the subject of your next book? </p>
<p>You will need a case study, and what could be better than a history of that once-great newspaper The Manchester Guardian? Please put my name down for the first copy.</p>
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		<title>By: AKUS</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-803</link>
		<dc:creator>AKUS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=1268#comment-803</guid>
		<description>I am amazed that there appears to be either no statute against hate speech, or support and encouragement of hate speech that could be used in the UK to bring the Guardian to heel. Somewhere out there there must be a British Dershowitz, smart enough and aggressive enough to use the enormous amount of documented evidence collected by Hoffman, available on CiFwatch and other blogs, and some wealthy people to fund the effort to clean up the Augean Stable that the Guardian has become.

While you could probably not make a case that the paper itself writes articles that could be defined as hate-speech, there is no doubt that it provides a welcoming home for those who do on the main pages and in CiF. On CiF itself the anti-Semitism of some commentators is almost unbelievable - their names are known to regular readers, and listed at CiFWatch.

I am noticing more frequently that the moderators are now not only deleting certain comments, and leaving their trademark &quot;this comment was deleted&quot;, but there is more frequent use of the ability to make comments simply disappear, as if they were never there. This is, I think, a pre-emptive effort by the Guardian to try to avoid prosecution for allowing hate-speech to appear on its site, so they must be aware of how thin the ice on which they are skating is becoming. As everyone should know, in fact anything that has once been stored on electronic media can be recovered, and the mere cost of forcing the Guardian to recover that &quot;lost&quot; information  under whatever the UK equivalent of a subpoena is would be enough to cramp their style quite considerably.

The &quot;disappearance&quot; of comments is also apparently an attempt to promote the GWV (Guardian World View) by hiding the number of objections to the incessant anti-Israeli articles and the increasingly sieve-like appearance of the I/P threads, where up to 25% - 30% of the comments are deleted (mainly those of Israel&#039;s supporters). In addition, the increasing number of &quot;banned&quot; (shades of Apartheid!) pro-Israeli posters is an attempt to present a false picture of support for the GWV by simply sending those who disagree to the Gulag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am amazed that there appears to be either no statute against hate speech, or support and encouragement of hate speech that could be used in the UK to bring the Guardian to heel. Somewhere out there there must be a British Dershowitz, smart enough and aggressive enough to use the enormous amount of documented evidence collected by Hoffman, available on CiFwatch and other blogs, and some wealthy people to fund the effort to clean up the Augean Stable that the Guardian has become.</p>
<p>While you could probably not make a case that the paper itself writes articles that could be defined as hate-speech, there is no doubt that it provides a welcoming home for those who do on the main pages and in CiF. On CiF itself the anti-Semitism of some commentators is almost unbelievable &#8211; their names are known to regular readers, and listed at CiFWatch.</p>
<p>I am noticing more frequently that the moderators are now not only deleting certain comments, and leaving their trademark &#8220;this comment was deleted&#8221;, but there is more frequent use of the ability to make comments simply disappear, as if they were never there. This is, I think, a pre-emptive effort by the Guardian to try to avoid prosecution for allowing hate-speech to appear on its site, so they must be aware of how thin the ice on which they are skating is becoming. As everyone should know, in fact anything that has once been stored on electronic media can be recovered, and the mere cost of forcing the Guardian to recover that &#8220;lost&#8221; information  under whatever the UK equivalent of a subpoena is would be enough to cramp their style quite considerably.</p>
<p>The &#8220;disappearance&#8221; of comments is also apparently an attempt to promote the GWV (Guardian World View) by hiding the number of objections to the incessant anti-Israeli articles and the increasingly sieve-like appearance of the I/P threads, where up to 25% &#8211; 30% of the comments are deleted (mainly those of Israel&#8217;s supporters). In addition, the increasing number of &#8220;banned&#8221; (shades of Apartheid!) pro-Israeli posters is an attempt to present a false picture of support for the GWV by simply sending those who disagree to the Gulag.</p>
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		<title>By: amie</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-801</link>
		<dc:creator>amie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=1268#comment-801</guid>
		<description>Aside from the whole Jewish issue, there was Lerman&#039;s inability to understand issues in response to your point on Night Waves on Radio 3 about how only a minority of people in Europe declared there readiness to go to war to uphold justice. All he could do was babble that we don&#039;t do that anymore, we are all multilateralists now, as if those were mutually exclusive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from the whole Jewish issue, there was Lerman&#8217;s inability to understand issues in response to your point on Night Waves on Radio 3 about how only a minority of people in Europe declared there readiness to go to war to uphold justice. All he could do was babble that we don&#8217;t do that anymore, we are all multilateralists now, as if those were mutually exclusive.</p>
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		<title>By: amie</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-800</link>
		<dc:creator>amie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=1268#comment-800</guid>
		<description>And Robin, Kol hakavod to you, but I would hate to see you going down the defamation route, not only for practical reasons speaking as a lawyer, but for reasons of principle which I and others like DavidT have expounded on many times on Harry&#039;s Place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Robin, Kol hakavod to you, but I would hate to see you going down the defamation route, not only for practical reasons speaking as a lawyer, but for reasons of principle which I and others like DavidT have expounded on many times on Harry&#8217;s Place.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam B.</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-795</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=1268#comment-795</guid>
		<description>Robin, you have my full support - don&#039;t let them get away with it! I&#039;m going to buy your book tomorrow - I think that&#039;s the best answer to the hate-mongers at the Grauniad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin, you have my full support &#8211; don&#8217;t let them get away with it! I&#8217;m going to buy your book tomorrow &#8211; I think that&#8217;s the best answer to the hate-mongers at the Grauniad.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Klausner</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-793</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Klausner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/?p=1268#comment-793</guid>
		<description>Mr. Shepherd, I have nothing much to add to all the good advice and complimentary comments from the other posters here.  Just my own kudos and blessings on your brave stance and staunch defense of Israel in the face of such hatred and lies.

I agree with Israelinurse in comment #10 who said &quot;Maybe some more reputable newspaper than The Guardian would be interested in giving you a well-deserved platform?&quot;. Perhaps the Jewish Chronicle, the Jerusalem Post or even the Daily Telegraph would agree to host an article of yours in response?  

Peter the Hungarian, thank you for advising re Steimatsky. I didn&#039;t know one can order directly from them.  I will be heading their way forthwith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Shepherd, I have nothing much to add to all the good advice and complimentary comments from the other posters here.  Just my own kudos and blessings on your brave stance and staunch defense of Israel in the face of such hatred and lies.</p>
<p>I agree with Israelinurse in comment #10 who said &#8220;Maybe some more reputable newspaper than The Guardian would be interested in giving you a well-deserved platform?&#8221;. Perhaps the Jewish Chronicle, the Jerusalem Post or even the Daily Telegraph would agree to host an article of yours in response?  </p>
<p>Peter the Hungarian, thank you for advising re Steimatsky. I didn&#8217;t know one can order directly from them.  I will be heading their way forthwith.</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewP</title>
		<link>http://www.robinshepherdonline.com/discussion-on-the-guardian-should-we-take-the-legal-or-statutory-route-to-get-a-fair-hearing-for-israel-in-the-uk/#comment-792</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/the-guardian-lerman-and-shepherd/#comments

Harrys Place has picked up this saga</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/the-guardian-lerman-and-shepherd/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/10/06/the-guardian-lerman-and-shepherd/#comments</a></p>
<p>Harrys Place has picked up this saga</p>
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